Cultivating Courage, Even When You're Scared: A Conversation with Maria Stoyadinova

This week I wanted to share a conversation I had on The Making Work Fun podcast with Maria Stoyadinova. Maria and I recorded this episode several months ago and when I listened back, I realized that it would be perfect for all of you.

We talk about…

• How courage is NOT a character trait, but something that you can become skilled in creating (even when you feel scared)
• How to find & build your support team
• The power of taking small steps, going at your own pace, and honoring your risks levels

Enjoy this conversation with Maria from the Making Work Fun podcast!

Connect with Maria Stoyadinova:
- Website: https://www.restovergrind.com/
- Download the "Work Smarter, Not Harder" free workbook: restovergrind.com/save-time
- Instagram and TikTok: @rest_over_grind

Connect with Lynn Grogan:
If you’re considering a major career or lifestyle change and want to talk to someone, I’m here for you! See if we're a good fit for 1:1 life coaching by scheduling a free consultation here: https://lynngrogan.com/work-with-me/

Visit my website: https://lynngrogan.com

Let's Connect! Find me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lynngrogan/

Subscribe & Review: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to Courageously Unconventional on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget to leave a review and share this episode with friends and family who might find it helpful!

Have a question or want me to talk about a particular topic? Email me at lynn@lynngrogan.com

Original music by David Delaney of The Whiskey Boys: Linktr.ee/whiskeyboys

Transcript

Lynn Grogan [00:00:01]:
You are listening to the Courageously Unconventional podcast. If you want to change your life and start living on your own terms, you're in the right place. I'm your host, Lynn Grogan. I'm a certified life coach, and I wanna help you take action toward creating your own unconventional life. Each week, I'll share inspiring and unconventional stories from those who have gone before you as well as actionable steps you can take to start your own unconventional path today. Let's go. This week, I wanted to share a conversation I had on another podcast, the Making Work Fun Podcast with Maria and Natasha. Maria and I recorded this episode several months ago.

Lynn Grogan [00:00:46]:
And when I listened back, I realized it would be perfect for all of you. We talk about how courage is not a character trait, but something that you can become skilled in creating even when you feel scared, how to find and build your support team, and the power of taking small steps, going at your own pace, and honoring your risk tolerance. Enjoy this conversation with Maria from the Making Work Fun podcast.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:01:10]:
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Making Work Fun podcast. It's me, Maria, today, and I am super excited to be talking to Lynn Grogan, who you might have heard me talk to her on her own podcast, the Reality Show Life Coach. I've been on it twice now, and I had a blast both times. It was the best. Like, I found someone to discuss my TV obsession with and put it in the framework of coaching. So that was so fun. But, yeah, Lynn is a general life coach and, like I said, the host of the reality show life coach podcast.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:01:42]:
And I'm so happy that you're here. Welcome to the show.

Lynn Grogan [00:01:45]:
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. We, like you said, have had a blast on my podcast. So when you invited me here, I was like, yes, please. Let's do it. 

Maria Stoyadinova [00:01:54]:
I know. It was always so much fun. So do you wanna tell us a little bit about your story, how you got into life coaching, what, like, what you do in your life. I we're gonna unpack a lot of this in the podcast, but I just really love for listeners listeners to hear your particular story because it's fascinating.

Lynn Grogan [00:02:13]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I think the thing that most people remember about me is that I am a full time RVer. My husband and I travel full time in our RV, mostly in the United States, although we were just in Mexico for about 6 weeks. And, I started doing this, just over 10 years ago. I started out on my own, you know, in my own little trailer, and then I met my husband along the way. So that's probably the thing that people remember most about me as being nomadic and doing things differently. And then in terms of being a life coach, I started coaching back in 2017.

Lynn Grogan [00:02:46]:
I had, gotten to a point in my life where all the pieces were there. I was traveling. I had met my husband at that point, but it just kind of felt like things were a little off for me. I'm like, I feel like things should be better than they are, but something was missing. And, you know, I joined a life coaching program and it just, like, everything just, like, clicked for me. I love the mindset piece. I love to, like, dig into feeling more of my feelings. And it was so funny.

Lynn Grogan [00:03:12]:
I was looking back in my journals, and I was like, wow. Within a few weeks of being in that program, I was like, that's it. I should be a life coach. This is what I should do. And it was very quickly after that that I transitioned into coaching. So, where I'm at now with my coaching is, like, initially, where I started out is, I was kind of, like, scared to put myself out there. And I know that, Maria, you have shared your story about, like, not wanting to tell people right away. And what felt safest for me when I first started was coaching for other coaches.

Lynn Grogan [00:03:41]:
So I spent the first 4 or 5 years, first, working, you know, or being a coach, within the self coaching scholars program at the life coach school. And then I, worked for, a doctor, Katrina Ubell, as one of her coaches for 4 years. And so it was just really so fascinating, especially during the pandemic to be coaching doctors and getting the behind the scenes look during a time that was so scary for all of us. So that is a long winded way to say, like, you know, that's how I got into coaching, and now I have my own coaching practice now that I have in the last year branched off on my own and starting doing my own thing, which has been a blast and also very scary at times.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:04:25]:
Of course. It's yeah. I love your story so much. And I wanna ask you a little bit about how do you make that sort of take that leap into a different type of life? Like, is it I think what's scary for a lot of people is that they think of it as a leap, and I even just use that phrase. They think of it as this, like, big, massive change, and it often is, but it also doesn't have to be done all in one, like, a single step. Like you said, you can do what feels safe in the moment and do it in small steps. This has kind of been my approach, but I kinda wanted to hear your perspective on that. Like, are you more the I'm gonna do baby steps, or are you more the take the leap and then coach myself through it type of person?

Lynn Grogan [00:05:05]:
You know, it totally depends. I always like to check-in on people with their own risk tolerance. Like, I have no sense of how fast or slow people should do things. When somebody shares with me, like, okay. This is my dream. It's just like, okay. Tell me more about that. Like, what are you thinking in terms of, like, transitioning to that if you are doing that, or is this just something we're gonna talk about for a while? Either way is fine.

Lynn Grogan [00:05:31]:
I think my risk tolerance has been different throughout the years. I guess I it was I don't know if it was good or bad, but my parents never really had a big idea for me like, oh, you're gonna go be a doctor or a lawyer, or you're going to go to college. They were all like, yes. You know, whatever you think is great. We support you any which way, which led to me a lot of, you know, most of my twenties feeling, like, really lost. Like, what should I do with my life? Because nobody had given me a blueprint. But that meant that I figured out how to do everything my own way because, like, there was nobody laying it out for me. So I don't know that my initial stages felt so much as a leap as more so of, like, you know, I tried sitting in an office all day.

Lynn Grogan [00:06:15]:
I do not like this. What else resonates with me? Oh, I've always loved traveling, and how do I make that work? I've never been in a travel trailer before. I've never towed anything before, but you know what? Other people in the world have figured it out, so I'll figure it out. So I feel like in terms of that, I know I sound, like, very, like, yay. Then you just go do that. I mean, it was very scary at the time. I will admit. But so for that, like, I figured it out, and I think the turnaround time was pretty quick.

Lynn Grogan [00:06:45]:
But for something like starting my own business, that felt like a lot riskier to me. It felt more, you know, further from where I had been before because I'd always been employed. And so taking the leap to having my own business, like I said, I I spent several years it almost feels like an internship phase, like, learning the art of coaching under through other people's businesses and now finally taking, like, having the courage in the last year to do it myself.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:07:13]:
That is so interesting what you said about your parents because that is the a very sort of atypical situation. Right? Like, most parents have very specific ideas. And, of course, like you said, it's each scenario comes with difficulties. For you, the difficulty was, okay. But, like, what do I do then? For others, the difficulty is, okay. I'm on this path. It's been laid out for me for a long time, but what if I don't wanna do it? You know, it's each each comes with difficulty. But it's really interesting to hear your story of how you basically figured things out as you went.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:07:43]:
And I just I love that for you. It's been Yeah. Mine has been very much the opposite. I'm like, I've had the hardest time trusting myself to do things my way. I've always ended up doing it, but it's been really hard every step of the way to do it. So, I don't know. Like, what's what about your clients? Are they more like, do people gravitate to or more kind of like, I I wanna do things my way, and I just need, like, someone to walk me through it? Or are they like, I don't even know what I wanna do. I'm kind of paralyzed by fear.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:08:15]:
What's happening?

Lynn Grogan [00:08:18]:
You know, I think with general life coaching, people just come with a lot of, like, all the things are going on in my life. I don't know. And then it's through the course of coaching where, you know, it's like when we've put out the immediate fires and maybe you've experienced that in your own coaching, like, since you work with people on burnout, it's like, okay. Now that it feels like the ship has steadied a little bit, let's have a look around. And I think that's where it comes out in the spaces. I a lot of the actually, all my clients are women right now. A lot of, like, the topic of work has come up a lot lately because it's just kinda like, okay. I am in my I think the span right now is forties to sixties.

Lynn Grogan [00:09:00]:
And taking a look around, like, I I still wanna work, but how do I wanna work? I'm past that early stage where, like, okay. I gotta work to make money. I've gotta do this. I've gotta hustle. And then you take a look around, and you're like, okay. What I was doing worked for me in that season of life, but what do I want next?

Maria Stoyadinova [00:09:15]:
Mhmm.

Lynn Grogan [00:09:16]:
So I'm always listening for that. Like, the little dreams on the edge of where somebody might be like, oh, that could be interesting, but, oh, no. I can't do that. And I think maybe that's where, it's beneficial for me because I've often I'd say all of my adult life worked without of without the road map, without the blueprint for me.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:09:36]:
Mhmm.

Lynn Grogan [00:09:36]:
As I'm listening for people who are shutting themselves down because maybe, like, they've always had that for them. They've always had it spell out, especially in medicine. Having worked with doctors, it's floored me how much everything is really laid out. Like, here is your path. And if you wanna do something different than that, that's where the, like, the fear comes in. Because it's just like, well, what do I Google here? I wanna do something else, but I don't know what to look at next.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:10:01]:
Mhmm.

Lynn Grogan [00:10:02]:
And it's helping people stay in that space of dreaming and wondering and thinking about things versus shutting it down immediately. Because I think left on our own, and I do this too sometimes, is it's easy to, like, have an idea and then squash it immediately and never give it any air to breathe. So you might not even feel like you know how to dream anymore because you're so used to shutting it down immediately.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:10:27]:
Yeah. Totally. And there's no absolutely, like, no judgment in where you like like you said, risk tolerance varies with person to person, but also with different seasons of our lives. So I think there is a little bit of, like, social judgment attached to, like, people who are more risk averse, which is I'm for sure one of them. I'm super risk averse. So absolutely no judgment. If that's you, you can still take steps. Even if you're very risk averse, you don't need to take a massive leap and really uproot your life.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:10:54]:
You can still take small steps, and that's just something I think we do have a little bit of that all or nothing thinking. If I think of a dream I have or a goal I have, I need to immediately drop everything and go pursue it. And there's a lot of in between. And, of course, that's really scary, so people are like, forget it. Let's just ignore that. But there's a ton of space in between where you can like you said, even just be curious about it for a period of time. Not even have to do anything about it. Like, just think about it.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:11:22]:
Talk about it. Just explore.

Lynn Grogan [00:11:25]:
Yeah. I I think that's, like, a big thing I've been thinking a lot about in the last year is, like, how do you just have an idea for something and let it not be urgent? Like, let it just be there. You can just explore it. It is okay. Write it on a little slip of paper and put it in your pocket and just carry it around with you because I think that is the idea. Like, if I admit to myself what I really wanna do, then I have to pursue it immediately. So and that's that's feels really scary for a lot of people.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:11:58]:
Yeah. For sure. And I I shared something with you before we started recording, but I also wanna say it on the podcast. Like, I saw a meme recently, which was hilarious, but also kind of sad, which is was about consulting, the field that I I've worked in and I still work in, which was really like consulting is basically spending 20 years joking with your friends about how you wanna quit every day, but then just working at the same job for 20 years. And so it's kind of like it's obviously funny because it's true, but it's also sad because it's true. Like, I do think that happens a lot of, like, okay. I'm on this path. It's very socially acceptable.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:12:32]:
It's profitable. It's extremely like, I might fantasize about doing something else, but it's always just gonna be a joking text to friends or a joking meme. It's never I've never really actually considered, doing something else. That can be just super scary for people.

Lynn Grogan [00:12:49]:
Oh, totally. Well and I think that's why coaching can be so valuable too is because it's like this safe space for saying things out loud and a judgment free space. And so, like, if you were saying to your, you know, colleagues, friends, family, like, I'm thinking about do doing x, y, and z. Often they have opinions about things, and they're also part of your life. Like, you know, if you're telling your partner or your friend, hey. I'm gonna go do off go off and do this new thing. It likely impacts them too, and they might be afraid for you too, especially if, you know, changing things means different income or it means loss of status or maybe you even move to a new space or a new the new city. You know, it's like when you talk to a coach, like, I'm a I'm a 3rd party.

Lynn Grogan [00:13:40]:
You're a 3rd party, Maria. It's just fun to like, no judgments. Just tell me what's on your mind, and it becomes safer for somebody who instead of sending a joking meme and hoping somebody encourages them to go in a different direction, it's like your coach might do that for you and help you, like, explore that space instead of squashing it immediately.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:13:59]:
A 100%. And not only is it no judgment from us, but I think the other super valuable part of coaching is we help you deal with the self judgment. Because there's a ton of self judgment attached to it too often of, like, no. This is a really dumb idea, or I'm not brave enough to pursue it. If you decide to not pursue it, there is judgment either way. And we can help you clean that up so that then from a clean place, you can actually figure out do you want it or not. Because often, like, when we're trying to make decisions, it can be so difficult because we'd, like, gravitate towards decision that's gonna lead to less the least amount of self judgment and self criticism as opposed to the one that we actually really want. And those 2 are often not the same thing.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:14:39]:
So once you clean up preemptively that self criticism, that self judgment, then it becomes so much easier to actually look at the two options and be like, okay. Which one of those two do I wanna pursue?

Lynn Grogan [00:14:51]:
Yeah. A 100%. Because, I mean, I think at the end of the day, we don't just want, like, a slightly better version of what we have right now. Mhmm. It's like, if if we were able to drop all the judgment and our self criticism and our fears of what other people will think, it might look wildly different than what you have right now. But I think people just kinda settle for, oh, slightly better because that feels safer, and it doesn't take you out of your comfort zone as much. And so I think that's kind of what it can be too is, like, giving yourself a chance to look at, like, oh, what's not just slightly better, but what actually, like, feels most me in this situation? What is what resonates with me? What helps me live, like, more true to myself versus maybe the blueprint my parents handed me or my community handed me or in the early days.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:15:39]:
Mhmm. Exactly. And you said one thing also before we start recording that I want, to ask you about so so you can elaborate a little bit more. You said this thing about there's often a juxtaposition between your life and the life of the people you coach and how that is affecting your coaching in very beneficial ways for your clients. Can you say more about that?

Lynn Grogan [00:16:00]:
Yeah. Well, okay. So when I first started working with doctors okay. So at first, when I got my job working for a doctor, I was just answering written coaching. So nobody knew who was on the other side. Mhmm. And that felt very safe to me because I was like, oh, they don't know that I'm not in health care. They just know that a coach is answering their questions.

Lynn Grogan [00:16:19]:
Right? But then I quickly was like, I want to coach. So I pitched to my boss, like, I should do 1 on 1 coaching. But with that, like, came a lot of me feeling like an imposter. Like, what do I have in common with doctors? They are these high achiever performers. They have done all these things with their career. And here I am over here. I was totally lost in my twenties when they were in med school. Like, you know, I was doing a lot of comparing there.

Lynn Grogan [00:16:45]:
And I realized from, like, the very first call, like, oh, right. We are all human beings with human brains, and we all have, you know, hopes, dreams, insecurities, and all those things. And I think what you were talking about before is, like, what comes up a lot is I know nothing about medicine. I've never worked in health care. So I'll ask a lot of questions that might seem dumb at the outset but have never been asked before because I have a wildly different perspective than, say, the person sitting across from me. And so it becomes, safe, and I've heard a lot of my clients say this in the past, like, oh, other doctors are very judgmental. So I don't want a coach who's a doctor because they if I'm thinking about doing things in my life, they might judge me for my decision or, you know, often when we're in a certain, you know, field or we're in a certain world, we see things through that lens. And so having somebody with a completely different lens looking in on your life is like, well, what if we explored that? What if you dropped this part of work and went towards this other part of work that may have never been done before, but it's something you could consider? Like, I have a few clients that are, like, thinking about, like, okay.

Lynn Grogan [00:17:53]:
Well, maybe if I worked part time or maybe if I retired earlier, took a sabbatical, like, those are all things that you could explore, but maybe your colleagues around you haven't even considered that or not doing that. And suddenly more things become options than maybe you never considered before because it's not what you know, it's not something that people around you are talking about.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:18:15]:
That can be, yeah, that can be just so priceless when someone from an external perspective comes in and without, like you said, without judgment, just ask some questions. Because sometimes the answer might be no. This isn't possible, like, within the institution that I'm working with, or sometimes it might be, wait. Like, nobody has ever, it hasn't even occurred to me, and nobody has ever even, like, offered that as an option. Because, of course, like, when you're in a particular organization or industry, you might have mentors, but those mentors are also humans with brains, and those brains exist in the same space. So they hear all the same thoughts. So the the things that are considered, like, conventional wisdom within the industry, like, your mentor is probably gonna believe those as well. So that's not particularly that it's very helpful in other ways.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:18:58]:
Like, it's very helpful in navigating the institution and the the firm and the industry, but it's not particularly helpful if you need this sort of space and external perspective to just get the big picture in your life. That was extremely valuable to me. I know when I got coaching, someone who's not obviously in econ consulting asking me all these questions. I'm like, what? This makes no sense. But then I was like, wait a second. Why doesn't it make sense? Only because I don't know. People decided it doesn't I don't know.

Lynn Grogan [00:19:29]:
Well, and I think to your point, I think we need multiple people. I think, you know, there's this idea sometimes that we have to go alone.

Lynn Grogan [00:19:33]:
We should be able to figure it out ourselves. Sometimes that we have to go alone. We should be able to figure it out ourselves.

Lynn Grogan [00:19:35]:
But I'm often support you know, like, helping people figure out, like, who's on your support team? I am one person. Maybe you also have a therapist. Maybe you also have a mentor. You have a group of friends. Mhmm. And I think, really, a lot of the coaching is figuring out how to trust yourself and listen to your own voice and take into consideration the people that you trust around you because I don't think we need to do all this alone. Like, there's a reason we are social creatures. So I think it's really cultivating, like, okay.

Lynn Grogan [00:20:06]:
Like, here's a space where, like, I'm always putting like, most of my coaching sessions, I'm listening. And then I'm pulling at different things and asking questions like, wait, tell me more about that. And helping people listen to themselves and trust themselves. And I think that's the process of coaching is, like, how do you learn to accept yourself? How do you learn to trust yourself? Trust your intuition, that kind of thing, and not I need an an expert to tell me how to live my life. And they're like, no. You are the expert. But somewhere along the way, maybe you've lost or you didn't figure out how to, like, trust your own expertise.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:20:41]:
Oh, I love that. Yeah. For sure. Because I love what you said about the support team and the toolkit. That's how I've been thinking about coaching as well. Like, I don't want to be like, I I will never be offended if you consult with 20 other people on things because you can pull things from all 20 of us on what's helpful to you. Like, it's the I don't need to be the one person in your life telling you, things because I don't I have no idea what the right way is. There's no right way.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:21:08]:
Like, that's just made up. And even if the the the funny example that I always give people, which, like, kind of clicks for a lot of my clients and it really was helpful to me is they're even the quote, unquote experts in whatever field. If you go to the bookstore and on the shell like, you go to the shelf where it's, like, expertise in whatever topic, you're gonna find 70 different books on the topic with 70 different opinions. There's no one like, if there was one right thing to do, there would be only one book. And it will be like the book. Right? There's the point is there is no right or wrong thing. It's all about figuring out what works for you and having a group of people, like I said, the support team and a tool kit, like a a selection of tools, that you can pull in different times. Like, this time, this thing works.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:21:55]:
The next time, this other thing is gonna work. I love that sort of versatility.

Lynn Grogan [00:22:00]:
Yeah. Well, and I think different ways of saying things unlocks different parts of your brain.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:22:05]:
Mhmm.

Lynn Grogan [00:22:05]:
And so you could say something in one way. I could say something in another way, and you you just hear it differently from different people. And so I think that's part of it too is, like, you're not going you know, you're not coming to me because I am an expert, and I'm going to give you your blueprint, and this is how you live your your own way. It's unlocking that part of you, and that's why I think, like, coaching, the way I like to do it is, like, individualized because every person comes to me with something different. So why would there be just, like, one path? There's probably a lot of similarities because we're all human, but you are yourself. And, so it's relying on kind of what you already know about yourself and working from there.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:22:51]:
And that thing you just said about, like, different things unlock like, different ways of saying the same thing unlock different parts of people's brains, that is I can't even emphasize how important that is. Because even coaching with clients, you can sometimes tell not sometimes. Like, you can always tell when something is not resonating, when they're just, like, nodding along because they're trying to be polite, but you're like, this this is not clicking for you at all. So let's try going at it from a different angle. There's no, like, judgment around that at all. It's the same when I'm coaching myself. I sometimes write out the same thing in 20 different ways, and I, like, pick which one feels the best. Because I'm like, this is the one that unlocked something for me.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:23:30]:
The rest, they sound good on paper, but I'm like, I don't believe them at all. So that's unhelpful. And it's so important. I can't even emphasize how important it is. Like, when you're working with someone to find someone who is very conducive to not being like, no. This is the one way, and I just told it to you, and now you need to go accept it. That's just a massive red flag for me.

Lynn Grogan [00:23:51]:
That's like borderline cult behavior. Do you

Maria Stoyadinova [00:23:53]:
know what I mean? That's cult behavior. I recently had, like, a really terrible experience actually with I was testing out, a new therapist because my current therapist is going on parental leave for a few months. And it was just the word like, my current therapist is phenomenal. I love her so much, and she's been helping me so much. And I never knew what people meant when they said I've had terrible experiences with therapists until, like, very recently. I'm like, okay. Now I know. I literally went into this person's office, and she was like she she started making assumptions, telling me, like, things that weren't clicking at all, and then kind of judging me for not having those things click.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:24:30]:
I'm like, I just wanna be out of the session. Like, this is so terrible. Yeah. It was it was the worst. So I I know how unpleasant that can be, like, when you're in this vulnerable space and you're sharing things and someone's like, this is the right way and something's something's wrong if this is not clicking for you. Jaden? Yeah. Yeah. I mean Yeah.

Lynn Grogan [00:24:50]:
I mean, obviously, this is audio, but nobody could see that my jaw was dropped the whole time while you were saying that because Well, it's terrible.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:24:55]:
Yeah.

Lynn Grogan [00:24:57]:
Yeah. It's like you see a stark contrast there. Yeah. And it's, I think it's also and this comes up a lot too is, you know, my clients will you know, we all start judging ourselves from time to time, and they'll be like, oh my gosh. I know you've said this 8 times or whatever. You know, like, I'll offer something very and I was just like, yeah. Of course. Like, of course, sometimes we need to hear things 8 or 10 times for it to resonate, but it's always you that's choosing to listen to whatever you're choosing to listen to.

Lynn Grogan [00:25:26]:
And I was like, what I say may never resonate. It may never be the right thing or whatever the right question or whatever. And it doesn't matter because it's like we we pick up when it makes sense for us to pick it up.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:25:39]:
Yeah. A 100%. I also wanted to ask you. You mentioned you're thinking of starting I don't know if you're thinking of starting or you've already started a new podcast project, and I wanna hear a little bit more about that. It sounds amazing.

Lynn Grogan [00:25:51]:
Yeah. Okay. So well, by the time I think this airs, because I think you said it might be a month out, the podcast should be live. It's called Courageously Unconventional, and it's all about doing like, living life true to yourself and figuring, like, how to have the courage to do that. It's something I've been thinking about for probably about a year now because it's like the one thing that when people meet me and hear about my lifestyle, they're just, like, always, like, well, I could never do that. I I don't know. You know? Like, that's not for me. I'm, like, it is not for everyone.

Lynn Grogan [00:26:23]:
It is, you know, whatever. But, but yeah. So it's a podcast series just kind of exploring all aspects of those lives, or of doing things in your own way. And then I'll have, several guests along the way, who have figured out their own way of living, working, living life, that is true to themselves. So I'm excited about it, but, you know, what's funny is, I have been working on the first episode, and I am somebody who's usually 1 and done with podcast episodes. I'm like, yep. That's good enough. Send it.

Lynn Grogan [00:26:55]:
I wouldn't say I'm a perfectionist at all. I am on podcast recording number 4 at this point, which is about to be number 5. And it's honestly because I think a lot of, creating content and you making podcasts and stuff is, like, this self discovery process and learning more about yourself. And, and so it's been interesting for me because, you know, my other podcast is, analyzing reality TV shows, and it's really easy when it's like, oh, this is fun. And, you know, this is taking some of their stuff that's out there and analyzing it, and it feels very straightforward to me. But as I go about the process of, like, putting forth my own ideas and coming up with ideas, you know, and forming it in a certain way, I find that the more I record, the more I learn about myself. And so I don't feel like it's a perfection thing. I think I'm just learning about myself and allowing myself the time and space to record a first episode that feels, like, true to me, like, right for me.

Lynn Grogan [00:27:54]:
So, but, yeah, I think I've landed on something today, Maria, that I really like. Feels like I've feel super energized by it, and I am excited to record that episode and put it out. So like I said, it it'll be live by the time this goes live.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:28:08]:
It's like. Yeah, I love that so much. And, yeah, like you said, you're just you're doing something completely new. So, of course, it takes a little bit of time. It's not gonna be.

Lynn Grogan [00:28:16]:
Yeah.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:28:17]:
Easy as the thing that you've been doing for a long time.

Lynn Grogan [00:28:20]:
Of course. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And I like giving space to things when it makes space sense to get makes Right. You know, give it a little space.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:28:27]:
Yeah. And it's also I found so much easier to have a conversation on a podcast than to try to record something on your own. I've I've recorded a few solo episodes when Natasha was away last year, and those were by far the hardest because you're just sitting there talking for a very long period of time on your own. It's significantly easier to have someone across the screen from you and having a conversation.

Lynn Grogan [00:28:49]:
Totally. Yeah. So no. But it's been fun, and I'm looking forward to it because it it feels like a new adventure for me. And it it's like the type of conversations I wanna have with people. So it makes sense that, like, putting something out there starts a conversation, which is really what I wanna do is have conversations with people about things that interest me and interest them.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:29:09]:
I love that. And I wanted the before we wrap up today, I wanted to ask you about, like it's in the title of your new podcast, but this idea of courage and bravery. Because you said, like, a lot of people come to you and they're like, you're so brave. I wanna be able to do this. And I think there's a little bit of that also is holding us back, a misconception around what courage, what bravery really is. There's, like, this language we use around, like, being fearless, which I think is actually super unhelpful because what does that even mean? You had no fear about something? Then that's isn't pretty like, that to me is the opposite of bravery. If you had no fear about something, then what was brave about doing it? Right? Like, the brave thing is when you have fear and you work with that fear and do it despite having fear. Right? And, like, so Yeah.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:29:56]:
I just wanted to talk a little bit about that concept of courage and bravery. I think that holds people back a little because they're like, well, I do have fear, so I'm not brave. Like, that's no. That's not how it works.

Lynn Grogan [00:30:07]:
So Yeah. I have a lot of thoughts thoughts on this. Well, first off, I think what happens for people when they have a new idea for something is they immediately start googling things and figuring out the logistics if they get to that space. They're like, okay. How do I start a business? How do I move to a new place? How do I and then what we forget about is, like, the human part, the fear part that comes up and which is the thing that'll hold you back from actually doing it. And I mean, honestly, I'm just making a podcast of materials that I wish I would have had early in my life because I thought that there was a problem if I was having any emotions whatsoever. I always had this idea that, like, if you were going toward the thing that you think you wanna do, it should be all positive emotions and all systems go, and it should be very, very easy. And that, has not been the case for me.

Lynn Grogan [00:30:55]:
And I know for and I think for you as well, like and most people listening is that, like, when you're going for the thing you want, there's a lot that's wrapped up in there. So it's like, how do you have the courage to move forward even when maybe the messages that your brain and body are telling you are like, no. Stay safe. Don't do the scary thing. And how do you find support? How do you support yourself? How do you find support, you know, from, like, say, a support team to help you with that? So that's kind of, like, what I want the podcast to be is, okay, I can listen to this and it helps me have tools to, you know, like, how to cultivate courage. Because I think it is more of a muscle. It's not like I am a courageous person, therefore, I am doing the things I'm doing. And if you don't identify that with that, then it's not for you.

Lynn Grogan [00:31:42]:
Like, I think it's figuring out how to, like, build that muscle for yourself so that you can continue to do things. And, and yeah. Yeah. That's kind of what I would say about that.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:31:55]:
Totally. I love, that you said it's like a muscle. Because I do think we we actually think of courage as a character trait. And it really isn't. Like, some people are brave in some aspects, and they are feel less brave in other aspects. But, also, it's just something you cultivate. Like, in the areas where you feel less brave, you can build that resilience. You can build that courage.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:32:17]:
Doesn't mean you're forever at a static level of courage in different areas of life. Right?

Lynn Grogan [00:32:25]:
Yeah. And I think it's, just being willing to go there and letting yourself have those ideas or, you know, like or bringing them to somebody to explore them together. Because, I think that's the other thing too. It's like, you don't have to figure it out on your own. If you wanna go forth, you know, I think the best thing you could honestly do for yourself is, like, if you have an idea, go find a couple other people who are doing something similar so at least you don't feel so alone in it. It can be hard, like, if you feel like I'm the only one that had this idea, and this is scary, and this is terrible, and I I shouldn't go forth into it. And you're like, if you're gonna find somebody who's doing something a little bit similar to you, then it's like, oh, okay. Somebody else has gone before me and has not died.

Lynn Grogan [00:33:06]:
It'll be okay. Yeah. That helps. Like, it's something I didn't have as I started out, you know, in an RV. Like, there really wasn't a lot of community at that time. There is now, but there wasn't at the time. And so I could I found, like, I think 2 women who were solo travelers online, and they had a blog. And I was like, well, if they can do it, I can do it too.

Lynn Grogan [00:33:30]:
And, but I think if you don't have that, it can be really hard to even take a tiny step forward if you think like, okay. Well, nobody's gone before me.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:33:39]:
Yeah. For sure. That's that's so true. So before again, before we go, do you wanna tell our listeners where they can find you? Definitely, everyone search for courageously unconventional in wherever you get your podcasts. Because like you said, by the time this comes out, I think your new podcast will be out as well. But any other information you want people to know about?

Lynn Grogan [00:34:00]:
Yes. I mean, you can find me at lynngrogan.com, Im, And then I'll have links out to everything else. So you can go to my website and find everything from there.

Maria Stoyadinova [00:34:12]:
Perfect. Then all of those links and information are gonna be in the show notes as well. So please go find Lynn. She's amazing. And thank you again so much for being on the podcast. It was amazing to talk to you again.

Lynn Grogan [00:34:23]:
Yes. Thank you for having me. Hey, friend. Thank you for listening to today's conversation. If you're considering a major career or lifestyle change and you want to talk to someone about this, I'm here for you. You can learn how to work with me 101 on my website, which is lynngrogan.com. And I also have details in the show notes. See you next time.